8/22/24 Animals being reborn as humans from DharmaWheel.net
Post by MarWes » Wed Jul 24, 2024 8:02 pm

Greetings,
I have been trying for some time to find out how animals can be reborn as humans. There is plenty of information the other way around (i.e., humans being reborn as animals) but, apart from general statements such as “even an animal can become a bodhisattva,” my search has been unsuccessful. Your help in this perplexing matter is much appreciated.

Post by jet.urgyen » Thu Jul 25, 2024 1:07 am
some animals are inteligent enough to do good actions.
there are stories where an elephant and a monkey offered food to the buddha, causing them to go to higer realms. in a similar way when animals on their will do a service to a meditator, it becomes something good for them.
for example, one of my siblings went to a mountain to do practices, but it went to late for him to return under sunlight. so, he was at night, not knowing the way, alone in that mountain. there a dog appeared, the dog made companion to him. my brother took it as a sign and just followed the dog and happened to arrive at safety. this little things can make the difference.

Post by Aemilius » Thu Jul 25, 2024 9:01 am
1. Buddha explained to Shrijata that he had created the karma an inconceivable length of time ago when he was a fly and there was some cow dung around a stupa. One explanation is that the cow dung was floating on some water; the fly landed on the cow dung and did a circumambulation when the water went around the stupa. The other explanation is that the fly followed the smell of cow dung lying around a stupa and thus had the good fortune to complete a circumambulation. The fly had no idea that the stupa was a holy object or that circumambulating it would become a cause of enlightenment. The fly had no intention of doing a circumambulation. It was acting totally out of attachment to the smell of the cow dung. Its motivation was completely non-virtuous. Due to the power of the object, however, the circumambulation became virtue. Buddha explained that that small virtue of circumambulating the stupa created the cause for Shrijata to become a monk.

2. Maudgalyayana asked the old man to hold onto a corner of his robes and then flew up into the sky with him.

They flew on and on until they came to a huge mountain of bones in the ocean. After they landed on the mountain, the old man asked his teacher, “Whose bones are these?” Maudgalyayana replied, “Oh, these are the bones from your past life.” The old man had previously been born as the largest animal in the ocean, as a whale. As soon as Shrijata heard his teacher say this, he generated renunciation of samsara. He realized that samsara is suffering in nature and that nothing is definite in samsara. His hair stood up on end and he generated renunciation of samsara.

He then entered the path and became an arya being in that life. Even though he began to practice Dharma only after he was eighty years old, he was able to achieve the arya path, overcome the cycle of death and rebirth and completely free himself from the sufferings of samsara.

3. There is a story about a pig that circumambulated a stupa—it might have been Boudhanath Stupa in Nepal, but I’m not sure. Once, a dog was chasing a pig, and as the pig was running away, it circumambulated the stupa. The pig did not have any kind of virtuous motivation. It had no idea that the stupa was a holy object and that it could be purified and liberated by circumambulating it. The pig had never registered for a meditation course! Because of the kindness of the dog that chased it, the pig did one circumambulation of the stupa, and after the pig died, it was born in the higher realm of Tushita. (from Lama Zopa Rinpoche; Chapter 34: March 2-b, Soquel, CA USA 1999, EVENING SESSION: LIBERATING ANIMALS, Animal Liberation https://www.lamayeshe.com/article/chapt … -march-2-b)

4. Bodhisattva Mahāsattva Avalokiteśvara then left the island of Siṃhala and went to a place where many hundreds of thousands of different kinds of insects lived within a cesspit in the great city of vārāṇasī. When Bodhisattva Mahāsattva Avalokiteśvara arrived there, he transformed himself into the form of a bee that made a buzzing sound that was heard by the insects as the words, ‘Namo Buddhāya, namo Dharmāya, namaḥ Saṃghāya.’ The insects remembered the words namo Buddhāya, namo Dharmāya, namaḥ Saṃghāya, and the thunderbolt of wisdom destroyed the mountain, which has twenty peaks, that is the view of the aggregates as a self, and they were then all reborn in the realm of Sukhāvati as Bodhisattvas named Sugandhamukha.

After Bodhisattva Mahāsattva Avalokiteśvara had ripened those beings, he left the great city of Vārāṇasī.

         End of the Chapter Fifteen named Vārāṇasibhramaṇam.”

(from Karandavyuha Sutra – transl. by Mithun Howladar, “Chapter Fifteen named Vārāṇasibhramaṇam)

Buddha as a Teacher of Animals is mentioned in the Vishuddhi Magga of Buddhaghosha. Buddhaghosha gives one example of this. In that story a frog listening to the voice and teaching of Buddha is reborn as a Deva, after it was killed by the staff of a cowherd.

Post by Aemilius » Fri Jul 26, 2024 4:21 am

There are numerous Jatakas in which Buddha Gautama, here called “the Bodhisattva”, or some of his disciples, like Shariputra or Devadatta, have been reborn as animals. Some examples:

514. Chaddanta Jātaka
“At this time the Bodhisatta came to life as the son of the chief elephant. He was a pure white, with red feet and face.”

Mahakapi Jataka (#407)
The Bodhisattva was born as a monkey, ruler over 80,000 monkeys. They lived at a spot near the Ganges and ate of the fruit of a great mango tree

Jataka 543: Bhūridatta-jātaka
In this jataka Bodhisattva is born as the great naga Bhuridatta

Campeyya Jataka (#506)
“And because he lived righteously, his wish came true, and the Bodhisattva was reborn as a naga king. The Bodhisatta ruled in great opulence, with naga maidens pampering him at all times. But he was not satisfied with the naga realm’s grandeur, and he wanted his next life to be as a human again. He tried to keep the holy-day vows and live a moral life, but because of the myriad temptations always around him, he frequently failed. So, despite the danger of being captured and killed, he began to spend the holy days in the human realm atop an anthill, where he would not be distracted. He told his worried queen the water in their lucky pond would turn murky if he got assaulted, disappear if he got carried off by a garuda, and become blood red if he got caught by a snake charmer.          …

People from the nearby village began to worship the naga, and they built a pavilion over the anthill. When a man who knew a magic spell that could control all the senses was traveling home and passed by the Bodhisatta, he decided to capture him to make some money working as a snake charmer. The man ate an herb and recited the spell, and the Bodhisatta felt as if his head had been split by a sword and blisters rose on his skin. Despite the pain, the Bodhisatta resolved to not get angry or resist because he did not want to stray from the path of righteousness.”

Samkhapala Jataka (#524)
“And when he was the royal nága Sankhapála, while he was being carried
along on a carrying pole by the sixteen village boys after they had wounded
him in eight places with sharp spears and inserted thorn creepers into the
wounds’ orifices, and while, after threading a strong rope through his nose,
they were causing him great agony by dragging him along bumping his body
on the surface of the ground, though he was capable of turning those village
boys to cinders with a mere glance, yet he did not even show the least trace of
hate on opening his eyes, according as it is said:

Post by DNS » Thu Jul 25, 2024 9:45 am
In most cases it’s probably a matter of the animals exhausting their (unwholesome) karma over many lifetimes in that realm. But in some cases we see animals engaging in wholesome behavior and even altruistic behavior. Go to youtube and search for “animal altruism” and you can see numerous accounts of that. This wholesome behavior can decrease their time in the animal realm and allow them to go to human or deva realms.

Post by Aemilius » Fri Jul 26, 2024 3:57 am
I have watched lots of animal altruism videos. In the past, few years ago, some moderator didn’t believe that the “animal altruism” videos are authentic!!

Post by SkyFox » Fri Jul 26, 2024 3:31 am
I always thought that we all have an almost infinite amount of karma and what ripens just depends on circumstances? To my understanding, that also means that someone could live a bad life, yet still end up with a good rebirth?

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Fri Jul 26, 2024 5:38 am
A person can live a ‘bad life’ (perform many unvirtuous actions) and be reborn into a life where they are surrounded by good fortune. But because of their previous actions which are based on attachment and habitual patterns, they will experience this good fortune as torment. For example, in this world you often find people who are rich and famous, such as celebrities, who end up going to prison or committing suicide because they are so miserable. They have no friends and life seems meaningless.

At the same time, you find people who never really get a break in life, never get rich or powerful, yet they are very happy living very simple lives, are loved by many people, continue to do good things, and live long and fulfilling lives.

So, since the goal of Buddhism is the perfection of a peaceful mental state (nirvana, liberation from suffering) when we talk about a ‘good rebirth’ in Buddhist terms, it really means taking birth with a mind that is free from grasping and dissatisfaction. The sutras of course mention temporary qualities related to physical conditions, such as wealth and a good bodily features, but these are more like bonuses, or side-effects. They don’t have any intrinsic reality. If you are content, then you always have all that you need. If you always have all you need, you are rich, aren’t you? If you have a positive self-image of your body, then of course your experience is being beautiful.

It’s all in the mind.

Post by SkyFox » Fri Jul 26, 2024 5:53 am
Does that apply to the events that happen in life as well? For example, you meet a good wife and fall deeply in love, both live happily till old age. Ultimately, none of that can be considered “reality” and lacks any true value right? I assume such a person who is compatible with you would also simply be a function of good karma.

Do you believe the fact that we are all here on this forum means that we’ve probably practice the dharma before in our previous life? Have you made any vows Padma? I made a personal one to try and escape samsara so I can hopefully help other beings. I wonder if these vows will actually have any effect for us normal people lol.

It’s so bizarre. I was born into neglect. My mother left others to babysit me while she played cards. One person accidentally dropped me, causing me to get a brain injury which required surgery. This had a profound impact on my life and health later on; it lead to addictions and health issues that destroyed a good part of my life and is still doing so; however, had this never happened, I would’ve never turned to the dharma. In the grand scheme, this might be a blessing in disguise, even if I have to suffer a lower birth in my next life. That’s to say karma is so strange.

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:27 am
The Buddha taught that whatever arises due to conditions will cease when the conditions for it cease.
My teacher used to say that we all come to the Dharma due to a previous connection. And if you ask around, you frequently find that the path that led people (back) to The Dharma wasn’t a clear cut straight line, but came as bout after taking many unexpected twists and turns. I’d like to think that this is similar to the story of dogs who get lost on camping trips hundreds of miles from home yet somehow find their way back and show up at their owner’s front door a few years later, that the dharma connection is just really that strong. But who knows!

Post by climb-up » Fri Jul 26, 2024 5:48 pm
Whoa, lot’s of great stuff. My understanding is that to be born as a human one must have planted a karmic seed of altruism in past lives, and then the circumstances are such that that seed can grown. In that case it could either be that an animal has performed a selfless act, as happens often and as noted above, or that an animal has, perhaps in a previous rebirth, performed such an act and planted such a seed.

Post by SkyFox » Fri Jul 26, 2024 9:06 pm
If we have an almost unlimited amount of past karmic seeds, wouldn’t it stand that we all have good karma just waiting to ripen, depending on circumstances? Meaning there is nothing to plant as it’s already there.

Post by jet.urgyen » Fri Jul 26, 2024 10:37 pm
partially, accumulated positive causes that ripen in specific circumstances deplete just as provisions for a trip deplete, like a glorious deva’s accumulation of positive causes in example.

after all positive accumulation depletes, one is powerless. i understand that, mainly, we can deliberately change the course of our future, and is up to us to decide what to do deliberately or non-deliberately.

i remember reading that the Buddha was in hell, and a simple moment of altruist was sufficient for him to accumulate causes and conditions to immediately reborn in a higher realm of the devas. point is that the Buddha-to-be was in hell, he wasn’t on the path yet, and karma doesn’t depend if you believe or not in buddhism nor in causes, conditions and consequences. so we are continuously making choices. even those fools who think are neutral.

Post by climb-up » Sat Jul 27, 2024 12:23 am

Maybe you could just wait around, with all of the Buddhas and future-buddhas helping sentient beings, all beings should be liberated eventually (I’ve heard some people say no, but I find this upsetting and I don’t think that matches the teachings); but you’re talking about countless aeons of rebirth, because while we must (it seems) have the seeds of good karma, we also have many more, countless, seeds of bad karma, and the seeds of good karma need the correct conditions, that is why taking rebirth as a human is likened to the blind sea turtle, in a vast ocean, coming up once ever hundred years to breath, and there also being a small yoke floating on the vast ocean; the frequency that the turtle would come up to breathe and find the yoke around it’s neck is more than the frequency of a human rebirth.

Not only would just waiting entail countless aeons of suffering, it would also delay the ability to truly help other beings with their own suffering.

Also, many people have the good karma of a human rebirth, and the exposure to the dharma, and the leisure to practice it, and have exactly zero interest. In that case, it does not good.

I did forget to mention another cause for human rebirth for animals. There are many mantras, practices and liberation-by-touch/hearing/seeing/etc. that can also plant the seed for either human rebirth, or rebirth into a pureland; and potentially even instant liberation.

So, that’s pretty cool.

Different lamas seem to have different opinions about just exactly how effective various procedure are (Lama Zopa Rinpoche, for example, has a LOT of faith in the mantras he teaches for the liberation of animals, it’s wonderful), but everyone agrees that these are very helpful.

Post by Aemilius » Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:58 am
I have also read that story or one that is similar. It is somewhere in the Nikayas. Beings in that hell have to pull carts like animals. Some person there was too weak and collapsed. Then the Bodhisattva offered to help that person, he offered to pull the other cart too. As a consequence he died in the hell realm and was born in a deva realm.
It is long time since I read this story, and I haven’t found it again, (I have searched for it).
Links to discussion: https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=44425.